Talk:Poison
Vs. diseases Is there much of a difference between poison and diseases? - Emerald Melios 04:43, 2 June 2006 (PDT) * Poisons go away after dealing the 2nd phase of ability damage. Diseases don't go away and will repeat the ability damage phases until the afflicted creature makes enough fortitude saves to shake off the disease. Note that healing kits will cure diseases and associated ability damage straight away on application but will not restore ability points temporarily lost from poison. Harleyquin 05:08, 2 June 2006 (PDT) Handle DC Is this used? The des_crft_poison.2da save value is used for the poison vial. I have no idea what references the poison.2da handle DC. WhiZard 08:48, March 27, 2012 (UTC) * The Handle_DC column in poison.2da dates back to the original game, well before item properties could be added via scripting. It is quite possibly a remnant from an intent that was dropped due to time constraints. --The Krit 11:27, March 27, 2012 (UTC) Magical effects The current phrasing in the article makes it appear as though converting a poison to a supernatural effect would also convert the ability damage to supernatural. Is that the case? (Also, poisons and and the ability damage are both normally dispellable? I may have to try that some day.) --The Krit 17:03, April 22, 2012 (UTC) :Correct, poisons are set so that the 2da ability damage will always follow the subtype of the poison effect. The poison effect will always remove itself at the time it triggers the secondary effects. If a character rests before the secondary effects are applied then the following order is used. :1) Rest begins :2) Magical effects removed :3) Poison effect removes itself and triggers save vs. secondary damage/ secondary script :4) Main part of rest :5) Extraordinary effects are removed :6) Rest ends :Disease (by default supernatural) also has the 2da ability damage follow the subtype of the disease effect, except the extraordinary and magical subtypes prevent the application of 24 hour ability damage (and end incubation if the rest completes before that portion has had the chance to trigger). (I have checked and verified that the "Type" column for disease.2da never overrides the subtype used for either the disease or its 2da ability damage in each subtype case). When resting under a disease the ordering is :1) Rest begins :2) Magical effects are removed :3) Main part of rest :4) Extraordinary effects are removed :5) Disease triggers its save and associated damage/script (24 hour application, unless end incubation has not yet occurred) :6) Hit points are set to maximum :7) End rest :WhiZard 23:07, April 22, 2012 (UTC) ::I have looked again at on hit poisons (both on monster hit and standard weapon). Previously I had confirmed that GetEffectSubType() returned 8 (magical) for all their applications. However, I couldn't help recalling that many of my experiences with those poisons had ability damage dealt the second time when I rested. On a reexamination GetEffectSubType() still returned 8 (for both the poison effect and the ability damage), but I could see from the pattern that scripted applications had, that these poisons acted as extraordinary effects (for both the poison effect and its ability damage). So, I did a few tests with GetEffectSubType() which showed me why this command could not work properly for on-hits. GetEffectSubType() does not return the subtype of the effect when it was applied, but rather the last subtype the effect's listing was updated to. The script functions MagicalEffect(), etc. do not define a new effect, rather they update the subtype of the effect's listing. ApplyEffectToObject() would then use the last subtype that the effect's listing was updated to. The effect on the creature will always stay the same subtype, but the effect's listing can be changed afterward. For on-hits, there is never an updating of the effect's listing when they are applied. Thus GetEffectSubType() will always return the default listing for that effect. Most effects (except disease) are magical, which means GetEffectSubType() will typically return magical regardless of the sub-type the effect was actually applied using. This means GetEffectSubType() cannot be used with any accuracy when it comes to on-hit effects. Each on-hit effect must be tested by resting (or dispelling) in-game to identify what subtype is actually being used. Since most applications of poison are from on-hit sources, (though scripted uses like the spell poison and the dragon shape gas breath apply magical poisons), I will be updating the article to reflect extraordinary as the norm.WhiZard 01:35, April 23, 2012 (UTC) :* Looking at this again, I believe there is a flaw in your testing. The order of events that I am familiar with is: :: 1) Rest begins :: 2) Spells cast by the resting creature expire :: 3) Main part of rest :: 4) Remaining effects are removed :: I have seen this several times in multiplayer, and I just ran a quick test in a test module. Magical effects that were not created by the resting creature are not removed at the beginning of rest. --The Krit 01:17, May 16, 2012 (UTC) ::* Except extraordinary effects created by the caster expire after the main part of the rest (e.g. epic mage armor). So 2) should be "magical effects created by the resting creature expire". This still doesn't make disease effective as magical or extraordinary, and the only difference it makes is to run a EffectDispelMagicAll(99) for the distinction between magical and extraordinary when the on-hit in question is created by another creature. WhiZard 02:10, May 16, 2012 (UTC) :::* "Spells" (intentionally ambiguous wording) cast by the resting creature expire. Also "that I am familiar with" (i.e. seen happening while playing), not "that I have thoroughly tested and vetted against all oddball cases". The point is that some magical effects persist over the main part of rest even though your lists had them removed at the beginning of rest. --The Krit 03:28, May 16, 2012 (UTC) Poisons and On-Hit Ability Drain Testing it in game, it doesn't look like poisons can work on weapons with On-Hit ability drain (ie DC 20 Constitution 1d2) or ammunition with On-Hit ability drain. If someone confirms this, can this be added to the Wiki? 03:09, July 10, 2019 (UTC) * It is known that only one on-hit property will fire for each hit (see on-hit). Is that what you saw in your testing? --The Krit (talk) 23:27, July 10, 2019 (UTC) *Absolutely I saw that with testing in the PGCC module 01:24, July 15, 2019 (UTC)